My whole point was that given certain situations, it’s compeltely acceptable to request they shave. Not demand, but request. Oral sex just happens to be the easiest, and most common reason that I would think most people would request shaving be done.

Especially, like I said, if you’re asking someone to do something they aren’t comfortable with doing in the first place.

But, on re-reading the disclaimer I wrote, I see your point. I still don’t like what you said, but implication of irrationality struck from the record. But to clarify, discussion of practical problems with hair are fine, while warnings that you have no choice but to accept sexist standards have no place on a feminist blog. Whether your comment was doing the latter or not is up for interpretation, and I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Now let’s move on.

I’m not real keen on being given orders. I’d suggest you refrain from it in the future.

It’s simply that considering the disclaimer at the end of the article, I wouldn’t have wanted to be the first person saying such a thing.

“That was a step too far. You’re welcome to speak for yourself, but if you haven’t done a survey on a random sample of men, don’t pretend you know what they all want. You can guess, you can offer anecdotal evidence, but don’t inform us what our experiences will be like.”

I actually did do a survey on a web community of some 2000 people that I regularly visit. Less than 1% of respondents were willing to give oral sex to a completely unshorn woman.

(This means no trimming whatsoever. Trimmed was a separate category).

“That would be wrong. No sex should be “demanded.” Probably a nitpick, but you know us feminists and our hangups on consent.”

I do, but I often notice the issue is only relevant towards women giving consent to acts, not the inverse. In other words, that it’s okay for a woman to demand something, but not a man.

“Certainly, since no one should be coerced into any sexual act, each person can say they will only perform one under certain conditions, and the partner can decide if those conditions are worth it. (Don’t forget that last part - it means that the decision of what to do with her pubic hair is still the woman’s, even in this situation.)”

Oh, certainly. I’m just saying, if you want to specifically request a thing, the other can put a condition on it. Such as going down on her will only be done if it’s cleanly shaven.

Neither party is forced to accept the arrangement, obviously.

“I find something unsettling about this sentence, particularly in “even more allowed” and “set the rules,” but I figure I’ve made my points, and this can be interpreted in a way that I agree with, so I’ll just move on.”

I’ll use myself as an example. I do not like giving cunnilingus. At all. Yes, I’m aware that’s somewhat atypical. I also gag uncontrollably if I get hair in my mouth, and if it reaches the back of my throat, I *will*, without fail, vomit.

Ergo, in that situation, if a woman really, really wanted me to do it, it’d only be fair if she agreed to the conditions I would set on it, such as no hair in the region my mouth will be.

“The only thing is, this should work both ways. I would not be surprised if many people got hair in their mouths while giving oral to men and didn’t like that either.”

From the women I’ve asked, hair-in-mouth from men only becomes a serious problem if he’s, well, small in that region. Because they’ll end up getting closer to his pubic region than they would on a larger male. Also, it’s a sort of different dynamic, just based on where the hair actually grows from, and where your mouth is.

“I also think people in heterosexual relationships should think and talk about these types of issues so that we can catch ourselves when we fall into sexist assumptions and expectations.”

I just skip all that and stay out of sexual relationships.

“Though, I’ll go a step farther and say you will have a damned hard time finding a male willing to go down on you if you’re unshorn.”
That was a step too far. You’re welcome to speak for yourself, but if you haven’t done a survey on a random sample of men, don’t pretend you know what they all want. You can guess, you can offer anecdotal evidence, but don’t inform us what our experiences will be like. There exist women who do not have a damned hard time finding such men. While I’m not accusing you of attempting to do this, I think men assert power over women in some cases by trying to give the impression that they speak for all men, that women will not be able to find a man (or will have a damned hard time doing so) who feels differently about the subject at hand, which is why I’m objecting to this wording.

“if she starts demanding oral sex”
That would be wrong. No sex should be “demanded.” Probably a nitpick, but you know us feminists and our hangups on consent.

“he can start setting conditions on the giving thereof”
Certainly, since no one should be coerced into any sexual act, each person can say they will only perform one under certain conditions, and the partner can decide if those conditions are worth it. (Don’t forget that last part - it means that the decision of what to do with her pubic hair is still the woman’s, even in this situation.)

“Especially if they aren’t fond of doing the act in the first place, they’re even more allowed to set the rules on when and how it will occur.”
I find something unsettling about this sentence, particularly in “even more allowed” and “set the rules,” but I figure I’ve made my points, and this can be interpreted in a way that I agree with, so I’ll just move on.

The only thing is, this should work both ways. I would not be surprised if many people got hair in their mouths while giving oral to men and didn’t like that either. However, I would guess that more women than men shave their pubic hair, and I would guess that this is only in part because of the anatomy, although I’m sure that has some effect. I think there’s also an element of social expectation, of beauty standards that require more self-changing for women than for men, possibly of higher expectation that oral sex be performed on a male than on a female (this was my impression from pop culture but has not been affirmed by personal experience), and of unbalanced power between the sexes. While I reiterate that everyone is allowed their personal preferences and requiring any sexual act under any circumstances is unequivocally wrong, I also think people in heterosexual relationships should think and talk about these types of issues so that we can catch ourselves when we fall into sexist assumptions and expectations.

At least someone said it, who wasn’t a male. Now I won’t get flipped out on for agreeing.

Though, I’ll go a step farther and say you will have a damned hard time finding a male willing to go down on you if you’re unshorn. That’s not trying to command you to do it, it’s just pointing out the common courtesy of it.

Most people don’t like hair in their mouths, and some react more adversely than others. (I gag uncontrollably, and usually have to excuse myself to the bathroom, just in case.)

So, while you say men have no right to tell a woman what to do with that hair, sure, that’s generally correct, but if she starts demanding oral sex, then he can start setting conditions on the giving thereof. (Especially if they aren’t fond of doing the act in the first place, they’re even more allowed to set the rules on when and how it will occur.)

i really like this whole post.